Curse

Tekish · Aug 15, 2007, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Am I the only one who thinks that the concept of punishing players for leaving is a backwards way to go about things? No matter how many time limits or restrictions that are added, this functionality is eventually going to unfairly penalize somebody. Sometimes people need to leave games. Sometimes games need to be left. Welcome to Guild Wars.

Introducing this mechanic without first conceiving every way a game could be unnecessarily prolonged or griefed would be foolish. Not to mention that seeing as how the nature of random arena itself is part of the problem (4 monk teams anyone?), I can't see how this change won't inevitably wind up forcing a player to choose between leaving or enduring the tedium that is a horribly matched battle. If that doesn't scream broken to anyone else, then I don't know what game you're playing.

I think a better way to address this situation would be to reward players who choose to stick with it, even when a match is lost. This reward should be based on the amount of time that a particular match has taken. This way, if a player chooses to stick around for a long, one-sided match, they will feel that their time has not been wasted by doing so. People were leaving RA games well before titles were introduced, and the reason for that was wasted time or the potential for it. If you remove that element, you will remove the bulk of the leavers.

MrFuzzles · Aug 15, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59

They haven't announced any specifics on how they will be "taking action" against leavers. In fact, the only thing they've said so far is this;

Quote:

The way we hope to accomplish this is to reward players for each win or for smaller winning streaks so players are more concerned about "Can we win this fight?" rather than "Can we win this fight and the next 9 fights?" Our hope is that players would then be more likely to at least finish the battle they are on before returning to the outpost if they decide to join a different team.

It sounds more like they are going to try and reward people who stay rather than punish leavers.

But even if they decided to go through with the "lock out of being able to rejoin instantly" model, it's not the end of the world. If you REALLY don't wish to give it a try because there is a paragon on your team or someone with pve armor, it's not that big of a deal if you exit and have to wait a couple extra minutes before trying again.
Their goal is to make repeatedly and consecutively leaving until you get in the 'perfect' team undesirable, not to punish the occasional leaver so harshly that you'd rather burn your dinner than to leave.

Oni Firestarter · Aug 15, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

First off:

Is anet pretty much abandoning the idea of gradual entrance into high level PvP? I can GUARENTEE that if I am forced to play with complete idiots in RA, I wont be RA'ing anymore.

How can Anet implement this sort of system w/o giving a corresponding ability to boot people. I went into this game with a R/W with frenzy and a sword and I was monking. The rest of the team was terrible, but this is before I was jaded and I decided to stick with him. After every match, I kept telling him to stop spamming frenzy so much, and to absolutely stop using healing signet while frenzied.

We got to 9 wins and spawned the obilisk map, and he decided to leeroy up the stairs away from my other two players, took 100 damage in frenzy, tried to heal sig it, and got insta jibbed. My teammates ressed him, and while i was trying to get up those stairs (abandoning my other 2 players) to get a prot spirit on him, he did the same thing again.

Since that game, I quit games whenever I see some moron. Why on earth should I have to carry a bunch of morons who have no interest in playing as a team or listening to anyone else to 10 wins?

Do you think I am the only one? How many real PvP'ers are going to RA when they have to deal with nothing but complete morons all day and cant leave. Of course bad players want no leavers, because it forces good players to play with them.

This change is completely one sided. People leave because they have no other options. Start giving boot options if you want to force players to stay.

If you dont, expect to see every good player quit RA'ing, and instead of acting as an entrance to high level PvP, it will be a bastion of PvE players arguing over what type of wammo is the leetest.

Where did I start PvPing again? Oh yeah, RA. I remember seeing a shock axe on my team while I ran some stupid ass nonsense and tried to figure out why he was able to kill so much more than my char. When all I see is moronic healing hands wammos, what am I gonna start playing?

Martin Firestorm · Aug 15, 2007, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oni Firestarter

Do you think I am the only one? How many real PvP'ers are going to RA when they have to deal with nothing but complete morons all day and cant leave. Of course bad players want no leavers, because it forces good players to play with them.

Then you and all your "real PVP'r" buddies shouldn't go to RA. Its random, that means something. What you want is called TA or GVG. What you and all the glad point farmers have been doing in RA has all but ruined it. This is long overdue.

MrFuzzles · Aug 15, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oni Firestarter

First off:

Is anet pretty much abandoning the idea of gradual entrance into high level PvP? I can GUARENTEE that if I am forced to play with complete idiots in RA, I wont be RA'ing anymore.

How can Anet implement this sort of system w/o giving a corresponding ability to boot people. I went into this game with a R/W with frenzy and a sword and I was monking. The rest of the team was terrible, but this is before I was jaded and I decided to stick with him. After every match, I kept telling him to stop spamming frenzy so much, and to absolutely stop using healing signet while frenzied.

We got to 9 wins and spawned the obilisk map, and he decided to leeroy up the stairs away from my other two players, took 100 damage in frenzy, tried to heal sig it, and got insta jibbed. My teammates ressed him, and while i was trying to get up those stairs (abandoning my other 2 players) to get a prot spirit on him, he did the same thing again.

Since that game, I quit games whenever I see some moron. Why on earth should I have to carry a bunch of morons who have no interest in playing as a team or listening to anyone else to 10 wins?

Do you think I am the only one? How many real PvP'ers are going to RA when they have to deal with nothing but complete morons all day and cant leave. Of course bad players want no leavers, because it forces good players to play with them.

This change is completely one sided. People leave because they have no other options. Start giving boot options if you want to force players to stay.

If you dont, expect to see every good player quit RA'ing, and instead of acting as an entrance to high level PvP, it will be a bastion of PvE players arguing over what type of wammo is the leetest.

Where did I start PvPing again? Oh yeah, RA. I remember seeing a shock axe on my team while I ran some stupid ass nonsense and tried to figure out why he was able to kill so much more than my char. When all I see is moronic healing hands wammos, what am I gonna start playing?

But with the new system, you would have gotten glad points with the frenzied R/W because you got 9 wins in a row. With the current system, it was a "waste of time" because you didn't.

RA is and should be where one goes to get their feet wet in pvp for the first time. You cannot expect someone who just came home from the store with guild wars in their bag, boot it up, and try pvp with an innate knowledge of which skill combinations just aren't viable in 4v4.

If you think RA is below you, you go to TA or HoH. RA will always be where all us scrubs go for some simple mindless pvp with no strings attached.

As for myself, I'd much rather have a frenzied healsig R/W on my team, than a pr0gamer tiger ranked monk in black obsidian who leaves before the match starts.

And for the nth time. There have been no confirmations about forcing you to play RA. There have been no specific details on how exactly they are going to deal with it.

Phantom Gun · Aug 15, 2007, 08:16 PM // 20:16

If this takes care of the leecher problem in FA/JQ and AB i'll be happy. It'll almost make up for that rit nerf we got last week.

Ninna · Aug 15, 2007, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFuzzles

They haven't announced any specifics on how they will be "taking action" against leavers.

I believe they have

from my 1st post

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Scott

punishes leavers in random formats with PvP downtime

bobrath · Aug 15, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oni Firestarter

How can Anet implement this sort of system w/o giving a corresponding ability to boot people. I went into this game with a R/W with frenzy and a sword and I was monking. The rest of the team was terrible, but this is before I was jaded and I decided to stick with him. After every match, I kept telling him to stop spamming frenzy so much, and to absolutely stop using healing signet while frenzied.

We got to 9 wins and spawned the obilisk map, and he decided to leeroy up the stairs away from my other two players, took 100 damage in frenzy, tried to heal sig it, and got insta jibbed. My teammates ressed him, and while i was trying to get up those stairs (abandoning my other 2 players) to get a prot spirit on him, he did the same thing again.

I'd question why you didn't just leave him as a corpse on the ground and concentrate on keeping the other 2 players on your team alive... Congrats on pulling out 9 wins with your team, but to site a player's inability to learn mechanics of the game - in part because you were protecting him from them - as the reason you want to be able to leave... Boggles the mind.

MrFuzzles · Aug 15, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

I believe they have

from my 1st post

But where are the specifics? How many minutes/hours/days/months are you locked out? Is it cumulative? Does it apply to aspenwood/quarry? Does the lock-out time pass while you are logged off or doing something else, or only after you click "enter arena"? Is it account wide or character specific? Do you get locked out from leaving just once or only if you leave 2-3 times in succession? Does it only apply if you leave before the match starts or also during it?

kvndoom · Aug 15, 2007, 11:47 PM // 23:47

A short lockout (3-5 minutes) won't kill anybody. Legitimate scenarios:

Guild calls you for GVG or PVE guild run, etc. Fine, you'll be GVG-ing for the next couple hours. The RA lockout will have been long expired anyway.

Real life issue (dinner burning, phone call, diarrhea, etc...) This will likely take longer than the lockout as well. Again, you have missed nothing.

This system would only punish those who leave a match and immediately try to go back in. 95% of the time these people are the "I can't play without a monk" Glad Point farmers anyway. Let them scream and cuss all they want, my ears are deaf to them.

I still would prefer a cap to glad points earned in RA over this. After 50 points, no more from RA. By then, you've won 500 matches minimum, so you should have some grasp of 4v4 and not be afraid to go to TA to earn your title.

As for AB/JQ/FA, that may need a different solution. But I'd like to see RA fixed first.

DreamWind · Aug 15, 2007, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhearted

Lawl. that's pretty sad if RA is the only reason you sign on anymore. Really, there's a lot more to GW than going to ra, hitting enter battle, waiting 30 seconds, and ragequitting when you don't get your "perfect team".

Im not sad...Guild Wars is sad because of Anet destroying it. I haven't had fun playing GW in over a year at least.

The thing you don't seem to realize is that I only sign on for a few minutes at a time to play some quick RA games or watch observer. I don't plan on signing on to GvG or HoH anymore because it is a massive time investment. Now that they are penalizing people in RA, the population will shrink and the level of play will be even more crap than it was before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

Then you and all your "real PVP'r" buddies shouldn't go to RA. Its random, that means something. What you want is called TA or GVG. What you and all the glad point farmers have been doing in RA has all but ruined it. This is long overdue.

Its not long overdue...its simply another Anet change that PvPers don't want that PvErs craved. And its not as simple as "go to TA or HoH or somewhere else". I don't have time for that anymore. I want to sign on for a few minutes and PvP with non idiots, and now I won't be able to do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oni Firestarter

Is anet pretty much abandoning the idea of gradual entrance into high level PvP?

No...they are abandoning the idea of good PvP altogether. High level PvP exited Guild Wars ages ago.

Voltar · Aug 16, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

RA is random arena. It's supposed to be for noobs. That's where we used to try out new build ideas. They should remove the Glad title from it. Some people take that arena way too seriously.

moriz · Aug 16, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

forget about penalizing players. as many have pointed out before me, sometimes shit happens and players will leave or go afk. instead of punish players, how about replacing them?

if a player leaves the game or becomes afk for 30 seconds, a random generic npc will spawn and follow the team leader. if the afk person comes back, the npc disappears.

the npc will be a warrior, ranger, or elementalist, using the same builds as the elite warrior, ranger, or elementalist in ABs. level 20, of course.

Shoujo · Aug 16, 2007, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Eh... Not sure how the system'd help. I can see situations where people will just stand there and do nothing in order to speed up their team's demise just so that they can move on to the next game faster.

Would help if faction were actually useful even once you've unlocked everything. Would give peeps a reason to fight to the end, try to score kills. That possible Glad point revision where you get a GP after every fight, but need more GPs to earn a title seems like a step in the right direction.